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Main - The Officer's Club - Guns: Laws, Culture, and the NRA
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Robbie Rage
Posted on 02-16-18 03:39 PM Link | ID: 127418

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Given what has happened in the United States the past couple days, many people's attention is on guns and gun laws again, at least for the time being. And the pattern that I see right now is the same: lots of anger, blame, and defensiveness with very little in the way of meaningful dialogue.

I'd like to change this.

I probably have a somewhat different perspective on all this than most people here. I am a registered Republican, have (technically) been a member of the NRA for over a decade, own a few guns, and have participated in several local target shooting matches over the years. However, I have also voted Democrat when I felt the GOP was out of line, have disagreed with the NRA on several occasions, and am in favor of several practical changes in gun law reform due to having seen some blind spots and redundancies in my local laws.

Because of my somewhat unique experience with all this, I am willing to open a line up a sincere, honest, yet respectful conversation with all of you here. If you have a serious question or comment regarding anything related to any of this, I for one am willing to listen to perspectives different than my own. I only ask that you please show that same courtesy to me, and maybe we can all make a little progress on our obscure little message board.

Thank you.

AtomicAstro
Posted on 04-18-18 02:15 AM Link | ID: 130714

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In terms of gun laws and things of that nature, I honestly believe that while gun laws can certainly help I don't really think they will be the pivotal thing in preventing bad things from happening. Often times the weapons used are illegal to own, so it can be assumed that they were procured illegally. In terms of guns I'm generally fairly neutral, I'm not strongly for or against guns at all. What actually will prevent things from happening is, unfortunately, a bit of a slippery slope, and one I can't really give any solutions on in all honesty, so I apologize if my contribution here seems somewhat meaningless.

If there is one thing I can say that genuinely does anger me in regards to this topic was that at my school and many other schools across the country they walked out in the middle of class in supposed protest. I don't even really agree that much with a lot of the protests, but man I haven't seen a weaker protest in my life. They genuinely canceled it due to ever so slight weather complications, and when they were supposed to go out in solemn silence they just dicked around and used it as an excuse to leave class. I am no golden boy or anything but god damn if you're gonna protest then fuckin' do it!

It's not only because of things like that, but other things that cause me to get the feeling some of the time that certain people only really blame guns or try to act so righteous in regards to this not because they actually care, but because it's the safest route to take and makes them seem as though they are in the right. I can't really imagine many scenarios where people could have a stance that is even slightly hinting that maybe guns aren't the worst thing in the world and not receive some sort of scrutiny. That could just be my generally pessimistic outlook talking, and don't get me wrong, I know that there are those who actually care about the issue. There are families of victims and just general political activists who definitely do feel the way they do because they legitimately care. However, I can't help but get a little annoyed in this case when people only have an opinion because it will give others the perception that they have the moral high ground.

Anyway yeah, I'm kind of an idiot and barely know jack shit about political issues so take anything I have to say with a grain of salt. Hope this somewhat interested you at least.

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ゼンガー・ゾンボルト
Posted on 04-18-18 03:22 AM (rev. 2 of 04-18-18 03:23 AM by ゼンガー・ゾンボルト) Link | ID: 130717

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They could start by limiting it to 1 weapon per household. And do background checks on people who wants to buy one.

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fiver
Posted on 04-26-18 02:13 AM Link | ID: 131204

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gun control just encourages use of black markets for being who aim to do malicious harm

such a ridiculous movement that is sending us backward in trying to deal with issues

Thieppy
Posted on 04-26-18 03:34 AM (rev. 2 of 04-26-18 03:41 AM by Thieppy) Link | ID: 131214

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gun control really only means gun restriction. there's no actual control anywhere.


guns are not 'bad' per se, but a convenient tool to mass murder.
said mass murders are impossible with non-ranged weaponary. for example, taking down a crowd individually with your everyday kitchen tool has to take more than a split second. you will be stopped a lot easier.

the black market specializes in escaping laws, so blindly enforcing laws solves nothing.

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fiver
Posted on 04-27-18 07:11 PM (rev. 2 of 04-27-18 07:11 PM by fiver) Link | ID: 131272

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or just use bombs

which are actually more efficient than guns, in terms of mass murder.

Robbie Rage
Posted on 04-30-18 01:37 AM Link | ID: 131574

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I honestly didn't expect this to get a response at this point. Cool.

Posted by AtomicAstro
If there is one thing I can say that genuinely does anger me in regards to this topic was that at my school and many other schools across the country they walked out in the middle of class in supposed protest. I don't even really agree that much with a lot of the protests, but man I haven't seen a weaker protest in my life. They genuinely canceled it due to ever so slight weather complications, and when they were supposed to go out in solemn silence they just dicked around and used it as an excuse to leave class. I am no golden boy or anything but god damn if you're gonna protest then fuckin' do it!


I hear you. Because of social media, it's easier than ever to rally and organize, but nobody seems to want to form an accessible, coherent argument, instead opting to hide behind a hashtag, and leave minds unchanged. It's why Occupy Wall Street got nowhere, why Black Lives Matter is still horrifically misunderstood, and why this will flop too.

Posted by ゼンガー・ゾンボルト
They could start by limiting it to 1 weapon per household. And do background checks on people who wants to buy one.


Your terminology here is very limiting here. Many people do not think of them as weapons. For some, they are tools. For others, a hobby. The way guns are seen an used every day goes far beyond just a weapon for self defense, and I feel the laws should reflect that.

As for background checks, I am also in favor of universal background checks, but the standard in my state is ridiculous to the point of redundancy. I know this isn't a reality for every state, but a basic knowledge of the nature of national gun laws is critical to coming up with a workable improvement.

Posted by fiver
or just use bombs

which are actually more efficient than guns, in terms of mass murder.


They are. The Columbine shooters made pipe bombs, and one of the other recent mass shooters use gas grenades. Where did he get those? I haven't even heard a single comment about that!

There is way, way more to the story here, and it needs to be addressed, even if it's not convenient for anyone's personal narrative.

Decoy Blimp
Posted on 05-21-18 08:17 PM Link | ID: 132665

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Thought I'd chime in on this (Also hi).

I'm not opposed to all guns, but rather, assault weapons. If you want a gun to protect your home, that's fine. If you want a gun for hunting, that's fine. If you want a gun for sport/target shooting, that's fine. You don't need an assault weapon to do any of those things. A pistol or a shotgun would suffice in all of those situations. While pistols, shotguns and the like are still convenient tools to murder people, it's not the same as using an AR-15 or some other automatic weapon. It's stupid that people cling to their assault weapons as if they're some kind of necessity, when at the end of the day it's not a necessity at all.

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Robbie Rage
Posted on 05-22-18 01:20 AM Link | ID: 132675

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Posted by Decoy Blimp
Thought I'd chime in on this (Also hi).

I'm not opposed to all guns, but rather, assault weapons. If you want a gun to protect your home, that's fine. If you want a gun for hunting, that's fine. If you want a gun for sport/target shooting, that's fine. You don't need an assault weapon to do any of those things. A pistol or a shotgun would suffice in all of those situations. While pistols, shotguns and the like are still convenient tools to murder people, it's not the same as using an AR-15 or some other automatic weapon. It's stupid that people cling to their assault weapons as if they're some kind of necessity, when at the end of the day it's not a necessity at all.


Hi!

In short, I agree with you. However, there is one caveat to note here: the availability of assault weapons. The term "assault weapon" is a pretty vague one, but most people I have heard from generally accept it to mean a fully automatic rifle (aka a "machine gun" that fires rapidly while holding the trigger down). While this may vary by region, I don't usually see those sold in stores or even legal, at least in my area.

The question, then, becomes several: How did the person get their hands on a fully automatic weapon? Did the person pass any mental health background checks? Such questions, I believe, can be beneficial to the overall discussion and sharpen up areas where laws may be falling short.

AtomicAstro
Posted on 05-22-18 09:57 AM Link | ID: 132719

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Posted by Robbie Rage
The question, then, becomes several: How did the person get their hands on a fully automatic weapon? Did the person pass any mental health background checks? Such questions, I believe, can be beneficial to the overall discussion and sharpen up areas where laws may be falling short.

This is precisely why I think gun laws really aren't going to be as helpful as some claim them to be. In most cases, as you mentioned, automatic weapons are already illegal. I'd go so far as to say that, worst case scenario, it could actually make things worse. If you look back to something like, say, the alcohol prohibition of the 1920's, during that time alcohol was more prevalent than ever because people wanted it and couldn't have it. Even if gun laws were to further limit guns, people would still get their hands on it. Drugs like pot, meth and cocaine are all illegal but people still manage to get their hands on it.

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