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Main - msg db 'Computer Address',0xa - A proper talk about .Net and such?
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Kawa
Posted on 03-03-12 02:35 PM, in Link | ID: 8288
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Is such a thing even possible? Let's find out.

Last time I tried to talk about .Net, certain somebodies felt the urge to bring up how things "didn't look native" when running .Net apps in Linux and shit, then kept focusing on that.

So let's limit ourselves to the internal parts. The .Net runtime, or very adequate alternative implementations (it IS a published and standardized thing after all) can run on a reasonable amount of different machines. Perhaps not so much as its older sister Java, but plenty.

Which, just as an aside, brings me to mention that Java's Swing doesn't look native either, so if you're gonna whine about Winforms anyway, take it both ways please.

At any rate, let's talk about the CLI, shall we? Or, if you prefer, other systems like it, such as Java, or dare I suggest, SCI.


Trelior
Posted on 03-03-12 02:39 PM, in Link | ID: 8290
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As far as the languages I've learned, and subsequently forgot from not using any of it... I preferred the .NET framework to program in, though the only language I learned was VB.NET.

I didn't care for Java. To quote something I heard once before... "Saying Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is good because it works on both genders."

Kawa
Posted on 03-03-12 02:47 PM, in (rev. 2 of 03-03-12 02:57 PM by Kawa) Link | ID: 8295
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That quote is truth.

But hey, you could write .Net code in raw assembly if you wanted to. It's just, the important thing to remember is that it's stack-based.
add eax, edx

ldloc.0
ldloc.1
add
stloc.0
One is x86. The other is CIL. As far as this specific example goes, it's still pretty straightforward, and the CIL is usually converted to the target platform anyway at runtime, block by block, so you end up with the x86 line after all.

I certainly found removing the Corruption from my copy of Terraria easy enough.

Edit: oh and there's a tool to compile the whole damn thing directly to the target platform, makes it go faster in the long run.


Nicole
Posted on 03-04-12 01:09 AM, in Link | ID: 8412
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I will say when I want to make a program, I usually use VB.Net, and most of my projects are done in that. But it's not really out of any particular love for the CLR, just that it happens to be a convenient development platform since Visual Studio is really nice, and I already knew the basics of VB. :P


Kawa
Posted on 03-04-12 02:04 PM, in Link | ID: 8430
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Well, then you should also be able to use C#. They all share the same base class library, except VB.NET has some extra things like "My" I think, and IMHO, it's closer to C# than it is to VB Classic.

Are there any other reasons to call it "convenient"?


Arisotura
Posted on 03-04-12 07:52 PM, in Link | ID: 8450
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I first went into .NET when I started coding in C++/CLI. The ability to design the forms directly was so convenient, compared to Win32 (those endless window/dialog procedures, ugh).

And I only realized how hackish C++/CLI is when I started coding in C#. That is, after the third release of SM64DSe (v1.1).

Posted by Kawa
(it IS a published and standardized thing after all)

This will void Nina's argument that .NET is closed just because it comes from Microsoft :P

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Kawa
Posted on 03-04-12 07:53 PM, in Link | ID: 8451
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Stupid arguments are exactly what I wanted to avoid in this thread so I'm pleased to hear that.

And yes, C++/CLI is just odd.


Nicole
Posted on 03-04-12 07:54 PM, in Link | ID: 8452
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Posted by Kawa
Well, then you should also be able to use C#. They all share the same base class library, except VB.NET has some extra things like "My" I think, and IMHO, it's closer to C# than it is to VB Classic.

Are there any other reasons to call it "convenient"?

Yeah, I could probably learn C# if I felt like it- I'm more used to BASIC syntax, but I've used languages with C-style syntax before so I could probably figure it out, and the other differences on top of syntax seem fairly minor. I've seen some C# code and are generally able to figure it out....


Nadia
Posted on 03-05-12 11:17 AM, in Link | ID: 8504
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Posted by Kawa
Which, just as an aside, brings me to mention that Java's Swing doesn't look native either, so if you're gonna whine about Winforms anyway, take it both ways please..

Actually, it can. — it doesn't do a perfect job of it, but it -tries-.

Kawa
Posted on 03-08-12 06:18 PM, in Link | ID: 8687
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See, I could go into how actually using the actual native controls is the only way to get an actually native look and feel, but that's exactly what this is not supposed to be about. So thank you, Niko, for that.


Now, let's try to fix this. VB.Net had optional parameters (you all know what those are, right?) but C# didn't until version 4. According to the developers' blogs, this was because they needed time to properly define the behavior of that functionality, which sounds like a pretty good reason for delay to me. There are simple usage cases where the "correct" behavior is blatantly obvious, but then there's also complicated scenarios. And those are the cause of the delay.

Because on the CIL level, there's no such thing -- C# 4.0's optional parameters are filled in at compile time:
void MyFunction(int i, int j = 4) { ... }

MyFunction(2, 3);
MyFunction(2); //compiles as MyFunction(2, 4)
And that's why you can use the 4.0 compiler, set to target the 2.0 runtime, and still use things like var and optional parameters.

Ain't that a cool thing.


Kiyoshi
Posted on 03-08-12 09:59 PM, in Link | ID: 8707
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.NET is a lot more secure than classic programming, since it's sandboxed, that's what I like about it.
I don't like that you have to install all those different framework versions though, backward compatibility would have been nice.

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Nicole
Posted on 03-08-12 11:41 PM, in Link | ID: 8721
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Kawa: Do VB.Net's optional parameters work that way as well, then? (Since you say it can't exist at the CIL level)


Kawa
Posted on 03-09-12 12:31 PM, in Link | ID: 8745
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Basically, they probably do. It's just, VB Classic already had it so they were pretty much forced to do it from day one.

It could've been a CIL-level function, but that would just open a whole 'nother can of worms.


Ailure
Posted on 03-12-12 01:16 PM, in Link | ID: 8907
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Posted by Nina
Posted by Kawa
Which, just as an aside, brings me to mention that Java's Swing doesn't look native either, so if you're gonna whine about Winforms anyway, take it both ways please..

Actually, it can. — it doesn't do a perfect job of it, but it -tries-.
It does a well good enough job IMO, but with a few gotchas. The main being that the native look does not necessarily support everything that a proper Swing UI looks. Not to say that what functions each native UI set supports varies between desktop environment. My recommendation is to prefer Native as users prefer the familiar look, but at the same time only use native for environments where you have tested it in to make sure the program dosen't wind up being unusable due to a quirk of the desktop environment (which is also the reason why it's not default).

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Kawa
Posted on 03-12-12 04:05 PM, in Link | ID: 8911
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You guys seriously gonna persist on the whole native looks bullshit?


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