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11-22-24 05:37 AM |
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| 0 users currently in msg db 'Computer Address',0xa | 6 bots |
| Main - msg db 'Computer Address',0xa - Browser Wars™ |
| What is your favourite browser? | |
| Opera | |
| Firefox | |
| Chrome | |
| Safari | |
| Internet Explorer | |
| Other (no derivative of the main 5) | |
| Multiple voting is not allowed. Changing your vote is allowed. 16 users have voted so far. | |
| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65    
Posts: 794/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by GywallI encourage everyone to try all of the big 5, they are all different ways to experience the web. It was an interesting adventure for me when I did  ____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| Lili~ ♥ |
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Normal User
Queen Lesbian of Kafuka Level: 160
Posts: 773/8412 EXP: 52913886 Next: 39113 Since: 01-06-12 Last post: 2964 days Last view: 1487 days |
I did.
* Firefox is slow * Chrome crashes all the time * Safari is insecure as shit * IE is just bad (and they dropped support for XP so I can't try it no more) |
| Epele |
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Site Administrator
The Sorceress. Boing~ Level: 237
Posts: 1430/20774 EXP: 205453313 Next: 2525621 Since: 01-01-12 From: UK Last post: 1052 days Last view: 2 hours |
Just decided to give Chrome another run.. still not that impressed. I like my bookmarks as a vertical list, not having to search through a toolbar. :/
Although, on a positive note - it didn't crash. The world could always use more heroes! |
| Arisotura |
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Developer
pancakes Level: 84
Posts: 176/1870 EXP: 5546531 Next: 115421 Since: 01-05-12 From: France Last post: 38 days Last view: 38 days |
I tend to prefer Firefox mostly for historical reasons. Back then, I had tried Opera and Chrome, and both would end up deadlocking if I let one or two youtube tabs open (or anything with a Flash applet). They probably improved by now, but hey, too lazy to switch. Firefox improved too, their best improvement for me being plugin-container.exe. Now when Flash fucks up, Firefox doesn't crash. 
Another reason is that I tend to keep several tabs open. When there are too many tabs to fit in the screen width, Firefox makes the tab bar scrollable, which is my favorite behavior. Other browsers will all squish the tabs until they all fit within the given space. This is nice but I don't want 3-pixel wide tabs D: (I'm probably exaggerating but you get the point). inb4 someone tells me I shouldn't leave 150 tabs open ____________________ Kuribo64 - melonDS want some revolution in your coffee? |
| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65
Posts: 798/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by Mega-MarioChrome was first with out-of-process plugins, and Opera 12 alpha has it too. But really, Flash is the problem here. Ever since Adobe took over Macromedia it is going downhill. Posted by Mega-MarioVous êtes très paresseux et totalement fou. ____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| Epele |
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Site Administrator
The Sorceress. Boing~ Level: 237
Posts: 1442/20774 EXP: 205453313 Next: 2525621 Since: 01-01-12 From: UK Last post: 1052 days Last view: 2 hours |
Posted by KiyoshiIndeed. I actually have an addon to disable flash by default. It's amazing how much better a system performs after you do that. Seriously. The world could always use more heroes! |
| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65
Posts: 799/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by GywallI know, Opera does not need an extension for it, there is the "enable plug-in on demand" function which works for WMP content as well.Posted by KiyoshiIndeed. I actually have an addon to disable flash by default. I enabled it on my netbook and there it was noticeably faster. ____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| Ailure |
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Retired Staff
 Buzzy Beetle Red pandas and stuff Level: 43
Posts: 193/398 EXP: 544825 Next: 20221 Since: 01-01-12 Last post: 2697 days Last view: 899 days |
Posted by KiyoshiWhen Opera and Internet Explores goes open source, I try em. Otherwise I stay the hell away, I always bias towards Open source unless the advantage of the propriety version is huge. Which I found to be overblown by people sometimes too.Posted by GywallI encourage everyone to try all of the big 5, they are all different ways to experience the web. I do agree that flash is a piece of shit nowadays. I would love to see HTML5 video totally replacing it (youtube have a HTML5 beta that works fine, but... it seems to be stuck in a typical google eternal beta phase). I use Firefox, but I like the webkit engine as well. ____________________ AIM: gamefreak1337, MSN: Emil_sim@spray.se, XMPP: ailure@xmpp.kafuka.org, YouTube
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| Arisotura |
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Developer
pancakes Level: 84
Posts: 178/1870 EXP: 5546531 Next: 115421 Since: 01-05-12 From: France Last post: 38 days Last view: 38 days |
I'm so much agreeing with you. Except it's unlikely that IE ever goes open-source, knowing Microsoft. There are more chances that this board's software gets replaced by vBulletin...
Posted by KiyoshiPosted by Mega-MarioVous êtes très paresseux et totalement fou. C'était une blague, je n'ai jamais eu même 60 onglets ouverts  ____________________ Kuribo64 - melonDS want some revolution in your coffee? |
| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65
Posts: 807/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by AilureWhy the strong tendency towards open-source?Posted by KiyoshiWhen Opera and Internet Explores goes open source, I try em. Otherwise I stay the hell away, I always bias towards Open source unless the advantage of the propriety version is huge. Which I found to be overblown by people sometimes too.Posted by GywallI encourage everyone to try all of the big 5, they are all different ways to experience the web. In my experience, free closed-source software often has much higher quality code, better stability, and a more consistent interface. Piriform's software is a great example of this. The "many eyeballs make bug-free code"-effect of open-source has not only been debunked, but it often leads to an inconsistent software design model because you don't get a community of thousands of developers to agree on anything. Look at how many different looks Firefox extensions have, for example. Open-source software is always made with IT enthousiasts in mind, that's why many people still use Windows, you need a solid company design model to keep software user-friendly. Opera has clearly stated that their browser will never be open-source, and it basically comes down to the reasons above. They don't want to drown it in a pool of tweakers and geeks. ____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| Ailure |
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Retired Staff
Buzzy Beetle Red pandas and stuff Level: 43
Posts: 196/398 EXP: 544825 Next: 20221 Since: 01-01-12 Last post: 2697 days Last view: 899 days |
Posted by KiyoshiOpen or closed source is irrelevant to this. I seen horrible examples of UI and stability in both closed and open software. Main advantage is that it's harder to include a backdoor in open source software (it's pretty much isn't a secret that Skype have backdoors). Posted by KiyoshiOpera have extenstions as well. I doubt that they would all be consistent as well. Closed source software is not consistent itself to start with, there is tonnes of examples within Microsoft software of this, famously with how the open dialog can vary between different MS software for no reason at all. Posted by KiyoshiYou certainly hadn't used a userfriendly Linux distro recently, as some of them they are made with some rather strict design models, and are a bit userfriendlier to install than Windows! Sometimes taking a direction I don't agree with that seems to produce actually less productive interface (Ubuntu) but then again it's not like closed source is innocent (Ribbon and Metro). Yes, some software are made for enthusiasts and clearly aren't catering to the average user. But there is also plenty of userfriendly stuff. ____________________ AIM: gamefreak1337, MSN: Emil_sim@spray.se, XMPP: ailure@xmpp.kafuka.org, YouTube
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| Lili~ ♥ |
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Normal User
Queen Lesbian of Kafuka Level: 160
Posts: 780/8412 EXP: 52913886 Next: 39113 Since: 01-06-12 Last post: 2964 days Last view: 1487 days |
The main problem is that open source is usually = cross-platform. And cross-platform applications tend to use an interface which may be uniform across all platforms, but doesn't fit with other applications at all. |
| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65
Posts: 810/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by LilianaMany closed-source software also is, and trying to be native is hard but often done. Opera and Piriform are again great examples. Posted by AilureOpen-source software mostly has more security holes though. It should be the other way around when anyone can read the code, you would think.Posted by KiyoshiOpen or closed source is irrelevant to this. I seen horrible examples of UI and stability in both closed and open software. Main advantage is that it's harder to include a backdoor in open source software (it's pretty much isn't a secret that Skype have backdoors). Posted by AilureOpera allows HTML/CSS/JS extensions only. Firefox's XUL allows deep access to the code, that's why these extensions can be very unsafe, and XUL is exploited a lot.Posted by KiyoshiOpera have extenstions as well. I doubt that they would all be consistent as well. Closed source software is not consistent itself to start with, there is tonnes of examples within Microsoft software of this, famously with how the open dialog can vary between different MS software for no reason at all. The open dialog is different from one app to another, but that is mostly the app's fault. At least we don't se radically different designs as the freedom is limited to just a few types. Windows and Mac OS X both have a solid design philosophy, avoiding the fragmentation hell Linux and Android have. Posted by AilureI have tried many distros over the last 10 years. So many different packages, desktops, configuration files etc. seems like they have learned almost nothing in the past 10 years. Simply because there is no solid design philosophy. The installer being easy like the one of Windows 7 is a first step, but the desktop environments nowadays just want to look flashy and don't care about stability or consistency. Even with well-developed ones like KDE or Gnome you still need the command line and the package manager a lot.Posted by KiyoshiYou certainly hadn't used a userfriendly Linux distro recently, as some of them they are made with some rather strict design models, and are a bit userfriendlier to install than Windows! Sometimes taking a direction I don't agree with that seems to produce actually less productive interface (Ubuntu) but then again it's not like closed source is innocent (Ribbon and Metro). Yes, some software are made for enthusiasts and clearly aren't catering to the average user. But there is also plenty of userfriendly stuff. The 3 distros I have found to be somewhat close to user-friendly are OpenSUSE (at least it welcomes you nicely), Ultimate Edition (great out of the box but a bit too flashy and crashy) and Knoppix (many useful things preinstalled but confusing at times). Don't even start about the overrated Ubuntu. Of course this won't matter to an enthousiast as you, but if Linux is ever going to want a serious market share, Torvalds will have to do things like making some tight design constraints, and make much more things work with just a mouse. In other words, make Linux consistent and solid. But if he does that the fanboys will complain because they lost their freedom... If freedom is worth more to you than anything else, go for it of course. But I prefer stability, consistency and quality code. Don't just count some flaws of MS, look at companies like Opera and Piriform (CCleaner, Defraggler, Speccy) as well. The Office 2007/2010 Ribbons? I did not like them at first, but it visualizes things a lot more, which is actually better. It just takes some time to get used to if you have used the classic Office since 1992 like I did, but when you have never worked with Office before it's much less confusing than tons of toolbars and menu options. Metro? It works pretty well on tablets, on the desktop not so much (although since the beta you can do everything wiith the mouse). I will stay at Windows 7 for now, and I expect Windows 9 to be pretty awesome, as there is a clear suck-rule-suck-rule pattern in Windows releases (8, 7, Vista, XP, Me, 98, 95, 3.1). Edit: only 152 coins for such a long post? ____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| Ailure |
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Retired Staff
Buzzy Beetle Red pandas and stuff Level: 43
Posts: 197/398 EXP: 544825 Next: 20221 Since: 01-01-12 Last post: 2697 days Last view: 899 days |
Posted by LilianaThis depends on the application. I don't consider it even relevant though to open source. Some applications like well.. pretty much all web browsers does the native thing well IMO. Posted by KiyoshiCitation needed. It's also possible that more security exploits are reported with open source software than closed source ones. How would you know? You do know that Windows and a lot of other software does base itself on open source, BSD is open source as well. They didn't replace the BSD TCP/IP stack in Windows until Windows Vista. Posted by KiyoshiErr, have you made any native Windows applications? You probably find it's several layers of legacy basically. I would call it anything but solid. A lot of Windows code is really just hacks to support old software as well. Posted by KiyoshiShows you don't really understand Linux, since what Linus Torvalds is responsible for is the kernel and nothing else. What you ask for sounds a lot like what Ubuntu is already doing (even if I don't really like the direction they're taking). Posted by KiyoshiEr, honestly you don't ever need to use command line to set something up in Ubuntu if you use it casually. Keep in mind that any guides for Linux on the Internet does it the commandline way, cause that's faster to describe than making a whole guide with screenshots how to get around in the UI. Also package managers are wonderful. So what's wrong with em? ____________________ AIM: gamefreak1337, MSN: Emil_sim@spray.se, XMPP: ailure@xmpp.kafuka.org, YouTube
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| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65
Posts: 812/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by AilureI'm getting tired of linking Firefox MythsPosted by KiyoshiCitation needed. It's also possible that more security exploits are reported with open source software than closed source ones. How would you know? You do know that Windows and a lot of other software does base itself on open source, BSD is open source as well. They didn't replace the BSD TCP/IP stack in Windows until Windows Vista.
But if holes are easy to find, the developers are not stupid either, they see them too. Secunia advisories are mostly found through extensive testing and trial-and-error, not by looking at the code. BSD? Isn't that were the closed-source high-priced Mac OS X is largely based on? 
I know @Ailure, I am not saying open source software is always a bad thing. I use some of them too, but most really feel like hobbyist projects, tailor-made to the developer's way of doing things, not to clear design constraints. In your defense, let's not forget these constraints vary from company to company as well. This is why Microsoft is forcing their constraints, albeit mostly consisting of open standards like HTML5 and XAML, with Metro. I am open to the idea of open-source though, but it's like communism. It's free and accessible, but it's in people's nature to push their own ideas. There is not much integrity and consistency unless it's lead by a higher power. This chat I had with @Nina might be an interesting read.
____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| GreyMaria |
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Normal User
~< Outta here. |
I still use Firefox 3.
It's amazing how functional the internet is with this dinosaur. |
| Nicole |
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Administrator
Goddess of the Apocalypse Level: 200
Posts: 457/14042 EXP: 114151524 Next: 977865 Since: 01-03-12 From: Boston, MA Last post: 468 days Last view: 467 days |
♥457 ✿4706 ★50 Posted by GreyMaria Is there really any reason to keep Firefox 3 nowadays? I mean, yes they crapped all over the UI to make a Chrome clone, but thankfully it's still customizable enough that you can change it back. |
| Kawa |
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Retired Staff
 Not okay Prophet of Celestia Level: 94
Posts: 1110/2423 EXP: 8183961 Next: 172696 Since: 01-01-12 From: The Netherlands Last post: 2238 days Last view: 553 days |
"Functional" + no media element support = a good reason to whine whenever someone uses such an element, it seems. |
| Kiyoshi |
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Normal User
HEY HEY HEY STAY OUTTA MAH SHED Level: 65
Posts: 813/1016 EXP: 2221906 Next: 113722 Since: 01-02-12 Last post: 4595 days Last view: 4566 days |
Posted by GreyMariaYet in another thread you complain about software using too much memory. Posted by NicoleFirefox 4.0's interface was an almost identical copy of Opera 10.50, actually. ____________________ I don't give a flying feather |
| Ailure |
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Retired Staff
Buzzy Beetle Red pandas and stuff Level: 43
Posts: 198/398 EXP: 544825 Next: 20221 Since: 01-01-12 Last post: 2697 days Last view: 899 days |
The browsers have been copying from each other for a long time now. Nothing new.
Posted by KiyoshiA source from 2006 is not very relevant. Keep in mind is that when Firefox userbase grew the most too. Chrome didn't even exist yet! I looked up the Firefox myths page and eh, if you use that source in any kind of browser wars debate then sorry it's just too outdated. It was correct in 2006 but not today. Posted by KawaAnd HTML5 is awesome!  ____________________ AIM: gamefreak1337, MSN: Emil_sim@spray.se, XMPP: ailure@xmpp.kafuka.org, YouTube
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