Obviously I would like option two, to bring it up to date. That's the whole point of this project.

I have been busy lately. When activity slowed the situation became more and more I was alone in the coding. That's just not sustainable as I am only at the level of an auxiliary coder at best, not to mention my free time is limited. Bigger tasks are stuff I wouldn't even try due to most of them alone.

The Project timeline is as follows (subject to change of course.)
v2.5.x -> Finish all the open features. Fix the permissions bugs.. I want at least a simple installer to make it easier to get going. (I have an updated list on another site, if you want just let me know and I'll get you connected to it) Also this is the last 'backward looking' version. So anything from AB 1.x that anyone thinks needs pulled over should be done so now.

v2.6.x - Once the previous list is met, I want to increment the minor version to 2.6. We'll use 2.6 has a stable version for a long period of time. The mindset going forward is to do the bigger changes. Code normalizations, proper headers on the code files, clean up of broken code (fix and make work or remove), templated interfaces etc. Basically whatever we decide. It should be what Arisotura alluded to.. on par or better than other forum software.

I would love a place to show it off, but as you know we don't have one at the moment. I have a very ideas of new ventures but they are underdeveloped and not going to go past my idle thoughts right now. I would rather someone else make something with Acmlmboard. It's good for the code, and Acmlm's work. Also I would like to move to github for 2.6.x as it does have more exposure than bitbucket. We also no longer need the private repos features that once brought us to bb.

Advertising won't work. The only thing you can do is to run in on a popular place. That'll make everyone want one. (although as you saw with blarg it may not be long lived ones.. or large scoped ones.)

One thing I would like to see in any new coding standard is to functionalize or objectify the sql. It would be nice to have one place to tweek it, patch it, or even allow for some obsurfication without having to go though all of the code to identify where the sql calls are. There should be less or no direct sql calls if we can help it. (I have crazy ideas for stored procedures which again, should never leave my idle thoughts.)

Regardless any coding standard should be drafted and agreed upon by all major participating parties.

Scrydan's codebase will never see the light of day. The good things he's done have already been migrated over. This 2.6 is not the same thing btw.

I would like to see templates over static. The goal should be to be identical to the html in the default mode. We can finally do a mobile version as well as go with a potentially more modern look.

I'm still not as bothered by the SQL count as you are. I tend to go by how the user facing side acts, and overall system resources on the backend. That said, the code prob. can't be full optimized until we start retooling.

The last thing I will mention is the other thing that has been discussed many many times by various people. We could consider the from scratch option. We could choose another language other than PHP and make a truly clean scratch built solution. I'm just putting it out there. That would be something that would take many more than what we have now. At one time there was more than 5 people independently interested in such a thing..

In conclusion. If others what to do this let's do it! However I can't continue to be the majority coder. I just am limited on my time resources. I would like to get the ball rolling again so that AB2.x doesn't go back to rotting. The idea was to make it usable by all so it's not locked into one forum or niche. I'd still like to see that happen.

Very true KP.

However we cannot rebrand "The official" AB2 as anything other than Acmlm's. This is still his software and really we have to leave it labeled as such, with connotations either good or bad.

Now that I said that we do have two viable options. We could fork AB2. However, I am against that as it's like starting with a pile of mismatched code. If we're going to bother editing AB2 we should continue it as the name it currently is known as.

I think Bouche is traveling back to Australia so I don't think I'll hear from him in a while. I'm hoping he'll be willing to weigh in too.

However, as Bouche and I have talked about.. if we recode the board we aren't stuck with any labels. We can say 'inspired by Acmlmboard" or even never mention it at all. Plus we can get away from PHP and I'd like that. I really am just not a fan at all of PHP. We could take the best of what makes Acmlm's Acmlm's, build it on a modern core, and make it stand up to any of the other choices.

Posted by StapleButter

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The issue is that anything else than PHP will raise the entry barrier.

Moving would be good though. PHP was designed for quick, lazy progamming from day one, and that shows.

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Entry barrier being raised? Perhaps. However it could also open up more seasoned programmers who hate PHP and would love to work on something like this, just not in PHP. We'd also be able to separate ourselves even more from the older AB stuff.

As you said we can start clean in a language that has better resource management, and isn't as exploitable (compared to PHP, swiss cheese is a good for holding liquid).

I think anyone who really wants to work on it, would be willing to make the jump to another language. Also starting from a new lanuage means no preconceived coding styles should clutter everything up. We can do it all in one style easier.

If we have one experienced person in the language we choose I don't think we'll have any problems with the people here who want to work on the project. Ruby and sapphire Python Bouche has mastered. (ruby for his job at IFTTT). Learn as you go with a solid plan and a good spec

C# and mono work really well, or can in the right hands. I love the concept of a C web board with integrated sql and httpd. The ultimate in gurrella servery. However to me that seems more like an experimental project and something someone in the 'outside' would be likely to pick up. Unfortunately I think we'll have to put that idea on the "future fun" shelf.

OOP. Well I will say out right I am a functionally minded programmer. I tend to make many functions for repeated tasks, and treat classes as bundles of functions that effect one area. (SQL is a good example.) I would use OOP how the language chosen uses it. Unfortunately if we went with Ruby we would need to use OOP as it is a hyper-object oriented language. Regardless, I am similarly minded to Arisotura's statement. Function with OOP elements as they make sense. I would expect that we should make functions for things that reoccur so we don't have fucking play hide-and-seek to fix anything in said code routine. Speedy, secure, code is concise with good comments and etc.

Another thing we should talk about is the database itself. We should really spec out the table structure, and any store procedures while we spec out the code. The database can do more than just store the data. In fact it could easily handle more of the work if we take advantage of view tables and the like.

I read an article a while ago where as part of their security a site took a phpBB board and reworked it to only call defined stored procedures and disallow that db user to do anything but SP, and select. This created another limitation of trying to hack via query bleed. Not saying we should do that at all, but it's an example of some newer ideas we could try with MySQL too.

One advantage to python is we know people who have made board software in the past who can give us pointers. Another is there are more sites with default python installs than say Ruby. Another is it seems like more people may have interest in it as well. ( Nicole for example)

Yeah, I that's the biggest challenge. Anything other than PHP is going to have a higher barrier of entry. However, I think if we do it right we can mitigate some of those issues.

Flask is the framework I would actually have put forward if Python is selected for something like this.

Wasn't SQLAcademy also a bit bloated? I am very unfamilure with python modules so what would you have gone with now?

The SQL SP example was nothing more than a silly example. It really adds overcomplication which in itself adds security holes. Prepared statements will be a spec on anything new. It's really a given.

Question for all: So should I open this thread to the general dev forum?

Posted by Ninji

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Yeah... Then again, you could look at it from a different perspective:

PHP-based forum software is everywhere. An AB2 written in PHP doesn't have much going for it over many of these packages, like FluxBB and even ABXD/Blargboard. It's more of the same, essentially.

You will have a wider potential audience - but how many of these users will realistically contribute to the AB2 ecosystem, either by contributing to the software (ideas, suggestions, patches, ...) or by maintaining a successful board? As StapleButter mentioned, RVLution (and Kuribo64) are the only Blargboard-based sites that ever actually went anywhere. Both of these could have been run as non-PHP apps as well.

On the other paw, not much exists in the way of forum software that isn't PHP. A high-quality and lightweight forum package in another language would fill a niche that's rather empty right now, and you may be able to attract contributors and users who would have not given this software a second look if it was just another PHP board.

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Yeah. That's a good way of putting it. It's a 'less fish in the pond' syndrome. Being new it would attract people in a similar way Acmlm did with his board. It was very unique and filled the nitche that one could have a board without paying/pirating UBB/VBB.

12:57:11 StapleButter | sounding nice, all that 12:57:45 StapleButter | just hopin' that if we go with another language, potential audience won't expect us to be 'revolutionary' as in be Discourse or some silly crap

Well I don't think we have to be revolutionary. A good product is all we need. Some small revolutionary accomplishments won't hurt of course. We'd still be writing forum software after all.

Go Kawa, Go! I'll be very interested in your results!

So Arisotura and I quickly started hashing out what Makes an Acmlmboard, and what we think we should look at from other boards.

The List:
Post Layouts
Simple Dark default appearance/theme (I would add a 'light mode'/good css control to allow for light themes)
More Complete RPG System
HTML posts
User titles
Bios & profile fields (flexible like the system on the board now, but not half implemented)
Permission System
The colors of the default groups
BB-code
Better implemented Toolbar
Syndromes
Ranks

Suggestion of a "markdown" mode was made a

So if you have suggestions for new features, as well as Acmlmboard components not listed just post in in here.

Edit: Ninji just linked me to this: http://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world

Looks like templateing is built in to flask. I've just look at the first two pages of this as I am at work. Check it out!